Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

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Do you like those units?

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Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by Chosen One on Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:42 pm

Greetings.
So as  we had some discussions about those kinds of units in non-related to the thread places. I've decided to make a separate thread about it. So the question is simple. Do we need this at all? Is it useful? I personally don't use such stuff for several reasons, I strongly believe that this is out of Homeworld style and I do not see the logic in such units, I would be glad to see some forge base with two supercapitalship production lines, than battle/something. But it is my personal feeling and I am pretty curious of what others will think.
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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by Nakamura on Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:14 pm

Battle Carriers definitely, they are needed for strike craft heavy play, because they have more armor than the normal variants, more carrying capacity, and in case of a battle they can defend themselves against bigger ships also, while the strike craft wing remains the main armament.

Not very fond of battle shiyards though, but that's just because of my playstyle.
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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by PurpleKalamar on Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:06 am

As we discussed with ALC, I think battle shipyards would overlap with shipyards. There is no interest to make a bigger, stronger shipyard, imo, ofc. :')
However, I think that a sort of "BattleHaulier" could be usefull. And a never-seen feature in RTS.
Tier 3 ship, expensive. 5000-6000 RU.
So I'll need to be clear, or I guess people gonna say my idea is un-homeworldy or overlaping.
Basically, in standard Complex, the battlecarrier is really over powered considering its size, its price and its techno rank.
A battlehaulier would be an hybrid vessel, 1,5 time bigger than a battleship, which the role would be to bring bigger flottes a better sustain. The biggest ships deployable by a battlehaulier would be destroyers,maybe cruisers (this will need to be discussed).
No RU drop off points, no manufacturing/harvest controller.
A pretty good armor, like 800k. 3 rapid sweepers, 2 dual kinetic guns and 1 modular weapon. 3 standards modules built max, and 3 facilities built max.

Can't build collectors/scavengers. Can't build production capital ships.

Here is a preview of a battlehaulier model. Still WIP ofc.


Also big fprges with severel production lines are a nice concept. Is it possible to encode this?

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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by ALC on Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:21 am

Battleshipyard — Never use it, don't like the concept.
Battlecarrier — Useful under certain circumstances, especially as an assault ship. It shouldn't be able to build capital ships of any kind though.

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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by Chosen One on Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:33 am

ALC wrote:Battleshipyard — Never use it, don't like the concept.
Battlecarrier — Useful under certain circumstances, especially as an assault ship. It shouldn't be able to build capital ships of any kind though.
Battlecruiser, it looks to similar to it.
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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by Niarro on Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:07 am

Personally I have issues with current battlecarriers and how the game in general feels and works, and how it seems like it could/should be.

Battlecarriers offer less modules (I think?) and are just as vulnerable HP-wise as normal carriers (It seems like we have some weapons that deal Terrible Terrible Damage, so even high HP targets die within a second or two)

But they don't offer that much in the way of benefits, really. I think my main issue is with carriers is docking speed, it's too slow to use in combat. So you end up having the carrier far enough away from a battle that it's not a problem. But at that point, it makes the 'battle' notion of the carrier a bit of a waste

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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by PurpleKalamar on Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:11 am

It should be reworked.

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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by Chosen One on Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:37 am

The only enhancement that carriers could have imho is anti-strike crafts (fighter-corvets) defense systems (pulsars and light kinetics guns, sweeper is max). Heavy weapons should not be on em. Don't make another warship.
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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by Niarro on Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:41 am

Basically what Chosen said, although hiig's already have that with their carrier. Vgr don't, is the only thing I'd point to

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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by PurpleKalamar on Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:50 am

I don't think having 1x 3x kinetic cannons makes it a warship...

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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by Chosen One on Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:54 am

It makes it able to fight off frigates.
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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by Nakamura on Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:11 am

PurpleKalamar wrote:
Here is a preview of a battlehaulier model. Still WIP ofc.


Also big fprges with severel production lines are a nice concept. Is it possible to encode this?
Multiple production lines aren't possible.
This is a perfect model however, oh my!!!
This is the kind of ship we could use as fleet carrier, a tier 3 ship similarly large to the Battleship.
It ought to have an armament similar to the modular cruiser, and the strike group that is docked being the main armament of course.
In my opinion, this ship could effectively replace the old carriers and the battle ark - all of which were removed. Not even sure if we would need a battle shipyard after seeing this...
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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by PurpleKalamar on Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:25 am

IGBC is gonna be angry lol, he really wants to see his BSY implemented
It seems that I'm better at modelling than at giving ideas Smile
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this model will replace both fleet carrier, battle carrier and battle ark?
We could use odie's model for battle carrier, and this one for fleet carrier. And fleet carrier is definitely a better bame than my ankward battlehaulier.

We definitely need a kind of... texturer :/

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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by Nakamura on Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:39 am

If we limit the production capabilities of your model to fighter and corvette, it could be the fleet carrier. Will catch up with Odie about it.

The Battle Shipyard concept can stay in the game, it would only create minimal overlap. We kind of need it because the standard shipyard has a limit of 1, due to the ability to arm the Mothership.
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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by Nakamura on Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:42 am

Upload it to our dropbox please, Odie would like to take a look.
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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by Odie_76 on Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:48 am

I like the basic shape. Where are the launch and recovery bays for fighters? Does the model have a frigate size bay for salvage operations?

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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by PurpleKalamar on Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:52 am

About production, not even frigates?
Also the model isn't finished yet, even if I progressed since this screenshot, and I won't be able to upload it before friday, sorry.
I will replace the battle capital bay by fighters and corvettes this w e, they will be launched from the front, below.

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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by ALC on Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:29 am

PurpleKalamar wrote:About production, not even frigates?
Not on the Fleet carrier.
I think Marine Frigates (plus fighters) would be appropriate on the battlecarrier though if it were to have a role as an assault ship, imho the only practical use for the ship.

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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by PurpleKalamar on Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:31 am

Ok, so basicalley, fleet carrier has huge .docking capacity but limited production capacities

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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by SpaceKookie on Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:12 am

Actually I like the idea of a "Battle carrier". Something like the Galactica. A carrier with fighters and bombers with production facilities that have artillery guns, torpedoes etc.

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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by ALC on Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:58 am

SpaceKookie wrote:Something like the Galactica.
That's be the Fleet Carrier, which actually is like the battle carrier, only much bigger. The battle carrier reminds me more of an assault ship (USN Tarawa class for example)

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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by SpaceKookie on Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:30 am

ALC wrote:That's be the Fleet Carrier, which actually is like the battle carrier, only much bigger. The battle carrier reminds me more of an assault ship (USN Tarawa class for example)
Ah fair enough. Though we could probably rename it into the "Super Carrier" or something. Why not "Battlestar"? Very Happy

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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by PurpleKalamar on Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:49 am

Hu, definitely not homerld-y :p
Fleet carrier matches its purpose very well, imo.

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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by Nakamura on Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:05 am

Yes, let's stick to fleet carier/battle carrier please.
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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

Post by Chosen One on Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:38 am

2 for and 7 against. Battle construction ships in non-howeworldy at all. This is not a Battlestar Galactica universe.
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Re: Battlecarriers/Battleshipyards.

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