My experiences playing 8.6 & 8.6.1

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My experiences playing 8.6 & 8.6.1

Post by _Alex_ on Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:13 am

So I played a few games with CE 8.6 & 8.6.1. Overall it is a lot better then the complex original! Though there are still some issues/bugs from the original. FYI, I know this mod is multiplayer centric though I only play skirmish vs. AI. And I almost exclusively play as Hiigaran, so my experiences stem from their point of view. I'll keep it short.

1. Fighter class ships biggest enemy is themselves, they crash into ships way too often. Perhaps increase the disengage range.

2. Cruisers seem to miss proper flying tactics. So their weapons do not come into full effect.

3. Frigates have the same issue. Though it is more complex IMO. They do not have proper tactics, nor proper countermeasers, nor effective weapons. Only en-mass are they usefull but that has little to do with proper tactics and more with "my fleet is bigger then yours". Coupled with the cost and fragility vs capitals they are pointless. As an example, the TFS mod got it right IMO.

4. Destroyers, put on 3x kinetic turrets and they will eat vagyr capitals and frigs. Not necessarily bad, but a bit too OP, their damage and engagement range.

5. The Hiigaran battleship Deathstar.....need I say more?

6. The Vagyr concussion frigate.... I think it is bugged, they are really hard to kill, most kinetic weapons miss for some reason.

7. I raised this issue on the Complex original forum, the Command fortress is OP. And like Nakamura said it is easy to kill from below or above. Seems a bit...awkward to have an immobile station that has such glaring weakpoints. I would seriously consider pushing the Hiigaran engineer that designed it out of the nearest airlock.

8. Debris....can it please expire after some time? The front of my command station is after an hour or so behind a wall of debris.

9. I find it hard to take out subsystems in a fleet of ships, would be nice if attack-selecting would prioritise subsystems for some craft (Bombers).

10. The salvagers "arms" animation is bugged when mining asteroids, it skips sequences.

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Re: My experiences playing 8.6 & 8.6.1

Post by Niarro on Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:55 am

I'm curious, what do you mean by flying tactics? O.o

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Re: My experiences playing 8.6 & 8.6.1

Post by _Alex_ on Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:15 am

If I remember it right it is referenced in the .ship file and defined in another script. What it does is actually tell the ship how to "move" and hence the flying tactics vs. various targets.

For instance corvettes circle, fighters do strafing runs, Hiigaran capitals go broadside vs other capitals. AFAIK you can define any flying tactic vs. any target on a per ship basis.

Here is as an example snippet of the Hiigaran destroyer. I do not know if it is original or modded with but it should suffice to illustrate.

Code:
addAbility(NewShipType, "CanAttack", 1, 1, 0, 0, 0.35, 1.5, "Capturer, Frigate, SmallCapitalShip, BigCapitalShip, Mothership, Corvette, Fighter, ResourceLarge, Resource, Munition, Utility", "Frontal",
{
    Fighter = "MoveToTargetAndShoot",
},
{
    Corvette = "MoveToTargetAndShoot",
},
{
    Munition = "MoveToTargetAndShoot",
},
{
    SubSystem = "BroadSideVsSubSystem", })
The reason I mentioned the TFS mod is because the frigates circle their target and not just sit there waiting for the inevitable to happen.

The site below has more information, look under "CanAttack" for more specific info.

hw2wiki.net

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Re: My experiences playing 8.6 & 8.6.1

Post by Nakamura on Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:08 am

1) only happens to missile bombers based on our tests
2) the range on guns differ, the behavior is the same as the BC's
3) Costs might need adjustments, but frigates are quite a force already... use them in concaves rather than walls. The AI will shred through them, but going straight for frigates is very viable against human players
4) will investigate in multiplayer
5) the BB is coming into play really late, when multiplayer testing will not be held back due to balance problems, we'll fix it. Dreadnaughts can deal with it just fine, btw.
6) We have more of those bugs, hopefully someone can fix this
7) The Hiigaran command fort will be replaced, it is a vaygr ship http://homeworldrebirth.userboard.net/t76-new-hgn-command-fort-o-purplekalamar

8)Use scavengers and salvage collectors for quick cleaning
9)no, bombers are anti capitals, not dedicated anti-SS craft. You'll have to micro.
10) hopefully someone can look into that
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Re: My experiences playing 8.6 & 8.6.1

Post by Niarro on Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:01 am

Ah, Naka. Fighters actually do have the issue of crashing into ships, asteroids and stuff. I've had times where I send fighters to attack an RU patch, and they take about half casualties just from crashing into asteroids / resource drop-offs


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Re: My experiences playing 8.6 & 8.6.1

Post by Nakamura on Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:35 am

Ok, will investigate.
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Re: My experiences playing 8.6 & 8.6.1

Post by _Alex_ on Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:16 pm

I tried to reproduce the problem of the fighters yesterday, 24x bomber squads without any research upgrades vs a few frigates, some crashed into the frigates. Some couldn't go anywhere and just stopped in space and turned on the spot near their target. Needless to say those fighters are sitting ducks and bound to be obliterated by assault frigates.
From experience I can tell it gets worse if speed upgrades and squadrons upgrade get researched. Fighter craft are especially a mess vs a wall of frigs or many ships close together. I propose increasing the attack run break-off distance.

Further I noticed some bugs on the modular cruiser.

- The turrets do not sit on the hull but float in space.


- The designations bow/starboard/stern etc. for the turret location are all wrong in relation to their actual position.

- The modular cruiser does not have a subsystem display except it's engine.

A bug on the modular sentinel, building artillery turrets shows their name as 6x kinetic cannon when hovering over them in the subsystem display. Name is shown in white text in the lower left.


Regarding the debris, the tactic of salvaging it is not possible when playing against 2 or more expert determcompplayer AI. And it is a hassle to micromanage. Seems more like a clickfest. All while I have to micromanage targeting subsystems, keep an eye on resourcing, watch sensors, do research, position my platforms, fleet, over-watching repairs...and and and....



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Re: My experiences playing 8.6 & 8.6.1

Post by Nakamura on Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:57 pm

Can fix fighters, the turret designations and names.

About salvaging, it's absolutely viable. Use cloak, too.
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Re: My experiences playing 8.6 & 8.6.1

Post by Niarro on Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:43 am

To be good at any RTS, Alex, yes. You need to do all those things at once, and it becomes a 'clickfest' heh. Micro, macro, everything.

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Re: My experiences playing 8.6 & 8.6.1

Post by Ravendark on Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:31 am

-masses of fighters reall slow down the game. obviously.
-in this low fps state, ships sometimes dont respond to orders, or ignore near by attacks on frendlies

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Re: My experiences playing 8.6 & 8.6.1

Post by Nakamura on Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:56 am

The slowdowns will be less intense as development is progressing. In every release, we do something to reduce the lag.
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Re: My experiences playing 8.6 & 8.6.1

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