Multiplayer experience, bugs

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Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by Niarro on Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:30 am

Firstly, the bugs. Was playing this game as the vaygr. I had deployed a hyperspace inhib platform which was basically invulnerable to weapons fire. It took a hiig battleship nuzzling/colliding with it before it was finally taken out. (I watched missiles orbiting it until their life ran out, and ion beams pass through it harmlessly) Was rather amusing to watch, buuuut... yeah.

Other bug I ran into was the hyperspace inhib modules on a pair of battleships weren't functioning. I built them, but not only did it not display the effect-radius to me, it also did let ships jump away.

It was my first game in a long time, was fun. Glad to see that cruiser missiles are no longer broken, heh. My initial reaction to the hiig mothership defences (mostly, the shield module) is that it seems a little too powerful, at least in terms of recharge time. My opponent had used it, I waited until it ran out and then jumped some ships in. The fight had barely begun, and the shield was already recharged. Seems like it couldn't have been more than a minute or two.

During another engagement, two of my battlecruisers were slaughtered by a pair of his modular destroyers, equipped with the EMP turrets. Not sure if this is intentional, I haven't seen the prices / time investment that one has to put into these ships. Guess I was expecting more from my BCs.

During yet another engagement, I was attempting to focus fire down a shipyard, with a pair of shuttles in attendance. My memory of this is spotty, but there were 6, maybe 8 patchers on the thing? Essentially they were out-repairing my DPS. Not sure if this is intended.

Out of curiosity, what ARE the sensor disruption probes supposed to do? I've always thought that they were supposed to act like a mobile patch of nebula, basically: shrouding nearby objects. It doesn't seem like they were doing so in my game, though, even with the 'disrupt power-upgrades'

And, what are the 'cloaking power upgrades' supposed to do? Cloaking isn't a binary state, you're either cloaked or you're not?

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Re: Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by IGBC on Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:50 am

stock sensor disruptors hide your ships on the sensors manager, I think. I'll make a note about reworking their mechanic. Maybe the probes cut down enemy sensor range by a factor to 10, when near enough.

Modular weapons require A decent amount of investment (at least they did when I coded them, the CEBD may have tweaked it) so if there's 2 MDD's with 4 EMP a ship then you're probably looking at 6K's worth of ship, and a further 5K of techs.

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Re: Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by Nakamura on Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:12 am

Will look into the hyperspace inhibitor platform and modules.

The shield module is powerful, yes, but you can destroy it with bombers.
We are looking into it's viability and potential, however.

What armament and upgrades did each of you have in the BC vs MDD engagement?
It's technically not fine that this happened. If you have the fusion missile upgrade, you should win. Currently, at least according to our early tests, the early game is rather balanced. The point where the game breaks is when the Hiigaran Modular Cruisers and/or hammer cruisers/destroyers arrive.

About the EMP plasma cannon, you need to consider that it's the top weapon currently available for the destroyers/cruisers. It's a heavy anti-capital gun. The cost of one almost equals the cost of a destroyer AND is only available at engineering division. While it is possible that the damage output is too much, it will require lots of testing.

On the matter of patchers (and drones) we need to consider whether we're keeping them at all. More testing is required.

Cloaking has levels of effectiveness, as does detection. If I have level 2 cloak power, but you only have level 1 detection, you won't detect my ships.
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Re: Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by Niarro on Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:22 pm

IGBC wrote:stock sensor disruptors hide your ships on the sensors manager, I think. I'll make a note about reworking their mechanic. Maybe the probes cut down enemy sensor range by a factor to 10, when near enough.
 

I'm not sure! All I know is that I had some scouts sitting right next to the probe, they were able to be seen. I had a variety of platforms around it throughout the game as well, the hyperspace inhib, hyperspace gate, and gun platforms were all able to be picked off from long range.

Nakamura wrote:
The shield module is powerful, yes, but you can destroy it with bombers.
We are looking into it's viability and potential, however.

I did notice that SOME missiles and such do get through the shield, so more experimentation is needed. This was my first game in a long time, so I'm sure part of the reason is just not knowing how to handle the shield, as opposed to it not being handle-able.

Nakamura wrote:
What armament and upgrades did each of you have in the BC vs MDD engagement?
It's technically not fine that this happened. If you have the fusion missile upgrade, you should win. Currently, at least according to our early tests, the early game is rather balanced. The point where the game breaks is when the Hiigaran Modular Cruisers and/or hammer cruisers/destroyers arrive.

I can only attest to my own upgrades. The memory's a little fuzzy at this point, but I don't think he had anti-missile out at the time. My BCs had the full weapons-suite, fire command and cloak (which wasn't a factor, he had proxy sensors out at the time of the first attack) They also did have the fusion missile upgrade, and at least 1 in all other catagories.

The two destroyers were destroyed by the missiles, but only after they had ripped through the BCs with their EMP guns. The one destroyer was firing four shots to the BC's three, with what seemed like a higher recharge speed.

Nakamura wrote:
About the EMP plasma cannon, you need to consider that it's the top weapon currently available for the destroyers/cruisers. It's a heavy anti-capital gun. The cost of one almost equals the cost of a destroyer AND is only available at engineering division. While it is possible that the damage output is too much, it will require lots of testing.

On the matter of patchers (and drones) we need to consider whether we're keeping them at all. More testing is required.

Cloaking has levels of effectiveness, as does detection. If I have level 2 cloak power, but you only have level 1 detection, you won't detect my ships.

Got'cha! good to know those things.


Last edited by Niarro on Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:33 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added responses)

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Re: Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by Niarro on Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:22 pm

Game 2!

it was REALLY REALLY nice to see fighters remain viable all throughout this game. really nice. Thank you so much, lol.

the heavy missile bombers have a tendency to... kill themselves when firing their fusion missiles though. I'm only guessing that it's the fusion missiles, but on their first volley the squadrons tend to blow half of the fighters up

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Re: Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by Nakamura on Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:07 am

Updating the bug list, these should be fixable.
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Re: Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by Niarro on Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:09 am

No doubt! Just pointing them out in case they weren't elsewhere. Hopefully that helps X3

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Re: Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by Niarro on Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:25 am

Game 3! That Aurora Borealis map. While the size is interesting, the fact that there's so much nebula on the map makes is basically impossible to finish a game within 24 hours, I'd wager. Scout pings do not reveal -anything- hidden within the nebula, and I found sensor probes to be worthless.

Also, facing shirys as Vaygr is a nightmare. They rip through an equal number of multi-role fighters. Same with a similiar number of striker corvettes. They easily brush aside frigates, and can handily deal with capital ships.

I didn't get a chance to try deploying defenders against them, but... yeah. I've actually got some footage of this last game, lol. So in this case I may actually be able to show you what I'm talking about, if you wish.

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Re: Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by Niarro on Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:38 pm

One thing that's been bothering me a wee bit: Capital ships with weapon modules that you just... want to build. There's no choice involved, you either build them or you don't; As opposed to being able to build turret a, b, or c. And without them the capitalship's naked and basically worthless. Like, the vaygr battlecruiser weapon systems. I'm not entirely sure why you wouldn't want to build those 'extra' weapons. And having to do so manually seems like just busywork / nonsensical, to me o.o I'd much rather have the ACTUAL cost in RU / time reflected in the ship's buildtime, and no worry about having to then add those systems in afterwards. Have a warship built, and when it's completed, it's -completed-, lol

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Re: Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by Nakamura on Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:49 pm

We have been discussing assets (such as on the vortex) for some time. It's rather tedious to script, but we'll do it for 8.7. While version 8.6 will focus on design clean-up elements, 8.7 will standardize weapon systems and make the entire weapon design more straightforward.

I agree that it's super tedious to arm a vortex or vaygr battleship for essence.
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Re: Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by Niarro on Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:15 pm

Sweet, that's awesome to hear.

Alright! For tonight's game, I've learned that the only reliable way to beat Shirys, as Vaygr, is as follows:

6 Dreadnaughts.

And I still lost two while plowing through my opponent.

I've also learned that roughly even numbers of fully upgraded defender fighters vs Shirys (with high if not full upgrades) will tie them up for a time... inflict some casualties, but still lose. And once you've engaged you can't withdraw those defenders, as shirys are a lot faster than they are.

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Re: Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by Niarro on Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:23 pm

Oh, also. Taking out the shield module on a mothership whilst it's engaged doesn't drop the shield.

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Re: Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by Nakamura on Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:00 am

Yes, the super capital class may be a solution to any situation. I wonder, have you tried assault frigates against shiries? Not sure how well that would work out, but I'd expect decent results. Vaygr really are in need of a tier 3 anti-fighter ship - I'm sure we could re-purpose one of the corvettes.
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Re: Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by Niarro on Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:00 am

one or two flights of shirys can kill an assault frigate in a single callisto volley. I've forgotten if their default weapon does appreciable damage vs them, I think it does. The assault frigs don't do enough damage in return to be able to do much, but I haven't -massed- assault frigs vs shirys yet. I could give it a go next game

Nakamura wrote:Yes, the super capital class may be a solution to any situation.

I hope you're being sarcastic with me XD lol <3

Edit: Two flights of shirys can take out one assault frig in a volley of callistos, and their regular weapons shred them.

Oh, and Striker corvettes do quite well versus fighters. Just not Shirys, lol

Edited Edit: Want me to try out frigates vs Shirys, proper?

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Re: Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by Nakamura on Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:30 am

Yeah, please try them.
And I wasn't sarcastic about super capitals. Hit and run moves with them are game ending.
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Re: Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by Niarro on Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:52 am

Nakamura wrote:Yeah, please try them.
And I wasn't sarcastic about super capitals. Hit and run moves with them are game ending.

Fair enough! It just seems bad that, so far, the only thing that works against Shirys is to throw away resources at them to make sure they can't take the offensive, while teching up to the biggest possible game-ending ship you can asap.

All because of some -fighters-. But I do apologize, not meaning to sound overly frustrated. Only mildly, at the moment! (My last game was drawn out by an hour or two due to not being able to overcome those fighters, heh)

I'll post how frigates work out! Or not.

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Re: Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by Niarro on Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:05 pm

Well... outnumbering shirys 2:1 with assault frigates helps, given equal upgrades, lol

The first volley of callistos fired also passed harmlessly through my heavy cannon frigates. 13 assault frigates (with 8 heavy cannon frigs, firing on harvesters) killed 6 shirys, with only two HC Frig casualties

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Re: Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by Nakamura on Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:59 pm

I wonder how the ablative shield of the swarm corvettes change things against shiries.
Again, if nothing works, we can easily re-purpose the storm corvette, seeing as it's role overlaps with the laser corvette.
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Re: Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by Niarro on Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:56 am

the ablative shield for the swarm corvettes seems to last an incredibly short period of time. Only 10 seconds or so?

Also, had an odd happening - My flagship came under fire, it had an armor asset. It seemed to be taking very little damage during the opening volley... then the armor asset was apparently destroyed, and the flagship suddenly was taking a LOT more damage than before. (It died very shortly after the AA fell)

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Re: Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by Nakamura on Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:36 am

The ablative shields last quite long actually, but I don't remember the exact value.

We have many bugs with the armor asset, it needs to be seriously re-scripted.
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Re: Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by Niarro on Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:03 am

Oh, interesting. They do last a long time! Not sure why I thought they didn't O.o

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Re: Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by Niarro on Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:06 am

Question, as the hiigs: Isn't the "Current max" pilot count supposed to go down as you lose ships, and then be replenished by the crew cells?

Also, I'm wondering if it might not be possible to get the nebula and radiation clouds a little more well definied. On some maps it's not much of an issue, but on others, like Criptical Sphere or whatever that full-random one is... some of those clouds just don't show up at all

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Re: Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by Niarro on Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:18 am

Question, as well! How does the anti-radiation thing work for both sides?

I'm seeing that the hiigs get an integrated anti-radiation field on their salvage collectors, which seems a little much o.o

Does the vaygr anti-radiation field apply to all ships? I see there's an "field strength" upgrade, and an "improved field" upgrade. Does the vanilla module not protect against radiation, or...?

One other question: Is the current fighter-flight path that's applied to a lot of the custom corvettes intended? For some, like the hiig plasma corvette, it doesn't seem to be neccessary. And in a lot of instances it results in a lot of corvettes colliding with their targets. I noticed swarm corvettes to be terrible for this

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Re: Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by Nakamura on Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:19 pm

Niarro wrote:Question, as the hiigs: Isn't the "Current max" pilot count supposed to go down as you lose ships, and then be replenished by the crew cells?
Yes.

Niarro wrote:Also, I'm wondering if it might not be possible to get the nebula and radiation clouds a little more well definied. On some maps it's not much of an issue, but on others, like Criptical Sphere or whatever that full-random one is... some of those clouds just don't show up at all
What do you mean by "not well defined"?

Niarro wrote:Question, as well! How does the anti-radiation thing work for both sides?

I'm seeing that the hiigs get an integrated anti-radiation field on their salvage collectors, which seems a little much o.o

Does the vaygr anti-radiation field apply to all ships? I see there's an "field strength" upgrade, and an "improved field" upgrade. Does the vanilla module not protect against radiation, or...?
It works for both races. The anti radiation module blocks out some of the radiation in it's active range - the efficiency of this can be upgraded through the field strength upgrade. Defense fields can protect against radiation too, if you have the improved field upgrade.

Niarro wrote:One other question: Is the current fighter-flight path that's applied to a lot of the custom corvettes intended? For some, like the hiig plasma corvette, it doesn't seem to be neccessary. And in a lot of instances it results in a lot of corvettes colliding with their targets. I noticed swarm corvettes to be terrible for this
We might want to change this - I'm sure it was intended to start with, though.
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Re: Multiplayer experience, bugs

Post by Niarro on Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:58 am

For the current max pilots: In a game I was playing as hiigs, using primarily corvettes, my 'current max' wasn't actually going down as ships were destroyed. And now that I think on it, the behaviour of my opponents would indicate that they don't lose 'current max' as well.

For the radiation clouds: By not well defined I mean that the clouds aren't easily seen, and their gameplay effect extends beyond their visual effect. So when they're above the 0 plane, with no circle to indicate where it bisects the 0 plane, you can't get an exact reading on where the effect begins.

Thanks for the info on the radiation! Didn't know defence fields helped with it too, that's good to know.

About the corvette flightpath: I've been losing a lot of squads and parts of squads to collisions with larger production caps / scavengers x.x Which is extraordinarily frustrating when attacking a completely undefended RU op, or even striking an RU op with the mothership around. I lose more to the collisions than I do to enemy fire in most games, lol

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